[ihc] Re: ihc-digest V7 #740

["salmineo@xxxxxxxx" <salmineo@xxxxxxxx>]

Dave,
In answer to your first question, the addition of an extra friction and reaction plate would not be the cause of it not getting above 60-65 MPH.  I know plenty of people that put the V8 units behind 6-cylinders, with no difference in performance.  The amount of additional mass is negligible compared to the rest of the rotating assembly.  

Yes, the guy is right, the BW is not on par with a 727.  However, unless you are into some hardcore stuff, there is nothing that the BW cannot do that the 727 can do, and it does have some advantages.  The rotating mass in a BW is much less than the 727, which should keep the rate of acceleration up, and take less energy away from moving the rig.  I know some folks that put a 727 in a former Red Carpet Scout, and it required substantial cutting of the floorboard, moving the engine up in the frame, and fabricating a crossmember for the transmission.  Definitely not for the faint of heart.  The BW can be built to take power if you want.  It is practically identical to the FMX, and that was used for years behind Mustangs and Pintos at drag races around the country, at least until newer units like the AOD came out.  You can get high-energy friction materials for the BW, and Kolene steels if you wish, and a shift kit, and a high stall convertor if you want, and all of the rest.  Heck, they were installed stock behind AMC 390s in AMXs for several years, which were some of the hottest factory V8s sold back in the day.  If you want, you can adapt an FMX in place of a BW, but that again will involve a custom convertor and a spacer plate between the bellhousing and engine, and some other stuff that really eats up the time.  I did it on a '67 Rogue that belongs to a fellow in my AMC club.  It was interesting, but once we got beyond the initial cheap cost of the FMX purchase price and the dust settled, it actually cost more than just using a stock BW and building that.  What I am saying is that if you have it done right, the BW should last longer than you have the Scout, and will not require a bunch of extra work and time and sweat and Scout butchery.  
-Colin Rush


Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 20:33:09 -0500
From: David Bongo <dbongo@domain.elided>
Subject: [ihc] Transmission questions

I got my Scout back from the Tranny shop today.  The Anchor struts
(IIRC) in the case split in half.  The guy never saw anything like it
before in his life.  But once those broke it screwed things up inside
and needed a rebuild.  I did get some info on the tranny, though. 
Internally, it's NOT the 6-cylinder  version of the 727, it's the V-8
version (4 clutch plates instead of 3, and a couple of other parts
went from 3 up to 4),  For the transmission experts out there, is this
something that would create extra resistance and, possibly, help
explain the fact that the rig has trouble getting much over 60-65MPH?

Also, I asked him about the Borg-Warner auto which I'm getting in my
Postal 800.  He flat out said that it's not as good as a 727, and it's
more expensive to rebuild.  So, I'm curious as to the feasability of
swapping a 727 in there.  My understanding of the stock 152/BW-Auto
setup is this:

The engine is tilted at 15 degrees
The Tranny is mounted straight
The engine tilt is compensated in the flywheel or bellhousing (sorry -
I didn't pay close attention to that part)

To mount a 727 from a 196 equipped Scout II, my understanding is that
you need to either tilt the tranny (probably NOT a good idea) or
straighten out the engine.  What the guy at the shop told me, though,
was that vehicles with a slant-6 engine had the engine tilted, and
727s were mounted behind them.  So this MIGHT give us a 727 capable of
absorbing the tilt.

Any ideas on this?  I know there was a discussion on this recently
about this, but no definitive answers were posted.  There was somebody
who had put a 727 behind a 196 in an 800 (or maybe 80) but my
understanding of that post was that the engine was straightened.  No
mention of tranny crossmember fabrication (or lack thereof), or any
other associated work.

Dave