RE: [ihc] Pete's AMC 360 swap

["Pete Shubin" <pshubin@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I think the answer is yes, kinda, sorta.  I did a fairly detailed write up
on the IHC Digest on my swap in early to mid 2000 that you may want to look
for.  It will give you more detail than I can from memory but this is what I
know to be true.

The post 1971 (may even include '71) AMC 258, 304, 360, 401 all share the
same bell housing bolt pattern so yes, no bell housing modifications are
necessary.  My '73 360 bolted right up to my T-18 in place of my '72 258.  I
did have to use the Ford style (remote starter solenoid) starter that I got
with my 360 in place of the Delco style starter that came with my Scout.
There was simply not enough room for the stock starter solenoid between the
block, headers, and frame.  I just rerouted the wiring (all shorter now) to
a new fire wall mounted Ford starter solenoid.  

The motor mounts that came with my 360 looked like they would have worked
just fine but they did not.  The mounting point on the stock frame is
narrower and the engine would not slide down where it was supposed to.  The
258 mounts also had one bolt to the frame each and the 360 mounts had two.
My solution was to cut a vertical slot through the mounting hole on the
frame and make an adapter plate to go between the motor mount and the frame.
This resulted in a vertical row of three bolts on each side with the top
through the motor mount and adaptor, the middle through the motor mount,
adaptor, and frame, and the bottom through the frame and adaptor.  I used
1/4" plate the same width as the motor mounts and have not had any problems
or deforming of the plate in the nearly five years they have been in use.  I
don't know if there are other motor mounts out there for the 360 that may
use the 258 single bolt setup but for $150 or so for the aftermarket Jeep
mounts I was not going to try them.  The end result is the engine sits about
1/2" higher than it otherwise would.

The clutch initially gave me self created problem.  The 258 uses a
"Borg-Beck" style pressure plate that matches the same style of pressure
plate in the Jeeps.  A stock clutch kit for the 258 will bolt right up to
the 360 flywheel so if you want to use a stock kit everything will work, but
I would not suggest going with a stock Scout clutch kit even though you can.
You can also go with a larger clutch using a Jeep J-30 pressure plate and a
clutch from a early '90s (I used a '92) Ford F-350 with a power stroke that
had the proper diameter and a input shaft diameter and spline count that
matched the Scout's.  A Jeep clutch will not work due to the smaller input
shaft diameter that Jeep uses.  I had no pilot bushing problems and just
found one that matched at NAPA.  My problem is that my moderately built 360
ate the clutch and I am looking for something with more holding power.  I
expect that a stock 258 clutch will not hold either behind a 360 and the
weight of a Travelall.  

My biggest problem with the swap was firewall clearance.  The AMC 304, 360,
and 401 engines are fairly compact but they get wide real fast right after
the bell housing mounting surface.  I had to perform both a body lift and
rework the fire wall to gain the necessary clearance for the heads.  I have
looked at several Scouts with stock IH V8s and they sit farther forward than
the 258 or my 360 now does.  The other option would have been to move the
transmission forward but I wanted to avoid this.  I do not know if the same
problem will exist in the Travelall.

I could also find no stock exhaust manifolds that would work and ended up
going with headers which I wanted anyway.  I picked up a set of Headman
headers for a Wagoneer/FS Cherokee and used those.

Let me know if you have any other questions.  I'll be glad to help.  Even
knowing now that my "bolt-in" engine swap was not such a bolt in I would
still do it again, but this time with EFI.

Pete

-----Original Message-----
From: ken.dunnington [mailto:ken.dunnington@domain.elided] 
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:14 PM
To: Pete Shubin
Subject: [ihc] Pete's AMC 360 swap

Hello Pete

As you may have noticed from various threads I have a Travelall with a
258.  I am wanting to eventually repower because the 258 just isn't
enough for this size vehicle where and how I use it.  Would you mind
sharing some of your knowledge about the swap?

The 258 has a T19A(close ratio) behind it.  My questions pertain to
the transmission interface differences between the 258 and a 360.  Are
there any?  Ie, will a 360 with manual flywheel bolt right up to the
bellhousing and have the clutch and pilot bearing in the correct spot
to work with what's already there?

Also, I've been told through hearsay that one engine mount works as is
but the other does not.  What was your experience with this?

Thanks,

Ken


Pete  Shubin wrote:
PS> Yes it was.  That is why I chose to go with the AMC.

PS> Pete, was your Scout equipped with a 258 before you put in the 360?

PS> Ken