Re: buggy spring

[Tom Mandera <tsm1@domain.elided>]

Daniel Nees wrote:
>    When I do the buggy spring on Ugly I need to figure out how to attach
> it to the frame since the springs are located outside the frame rail.
> Bill T how did you do yours?

You're not makin' sense, Dan.  Bill only did ONE front setup.. and if
you looked at his truck recently, you'd notice he no longer has the
buggy spring installed.. I don't remember if I got a "straight" answer
on why or not.

The *FRONT* springs ARE under the frame.

now, on the rear, that's a whole 'nother matter.

>    Also, should I do a shackle reversal then a buggy? Or just buggy the
> front end of the springs?

I have concerns about a front buggy with a forward shackle.. just seems
like a weak design.  What if the buggy starts to extend a little and
then you PUSH forward more.. you run the risk of the bugyg full
extending and then you apply MORE and MORE power.. and it's possible to
bend a spring pack.. think how easy it would be to break/bend a SINGLE
leaf in this situation.

For that same reason, I have concerns with a buggy leaf and *backing up*
with a reverse shackle arrangement.

OK, my thoughts...

First, you'll want a single rear leaf spring to cut up for your buggy
springs.. the rears have the "end" style spring-eyes.. vs up front,
where one spring is attached to the end/side of the eye, and the other
spring end is attached to the "middle" of the eye.

Ideally, I'd like to see a military wrap buggy leaf.. ;-)

On the front w/ a reverse shackle:

I was thinking of getting a length of 2" inside diameter box tubing. 
Mount it under the frame.  You'll want either two sections, or to notch
the middle so it'll bend to follow the frame's curve.

In any manner...

Extend it forward of the frame rails in the front - you want to move the
fixed spring mounting point forward (particularly with lift springs)
since the tire will now move REARWARD when you compress and not forward
(like stock).. so we're re"centering" the axle.  Run it forward of the
frame.  then rip the bottom of the tox tube away to make a "C" channel. 
Drill for the spring eye bolt.  Cap the end of the box tube with a small
square of strap/plate for strength.

On the rear side, "rip" most of the box tube into a C box (or just use
C-channel).  Roughly right above the front axle (wherever the relatively
flat section of the frame stops and starts arching to the front) is
where I'd start the C-channel.  Secure the channel to the frame.  Place
your buggy spring inside the channel - give it a good solid place to
rest.  Attach the cut leaf to the frame via two 1/2" bolts (maybe use
the stock center pin if that feels right for ya).  Grind down the C
channel a little and install a U-bolt plate and some square U-bolts
around the frame - yeah, I'm paranoid.

Then you could also "cap" the C-channel a few inches from the mounting
point - just to help keep it from over-drooping.  At the spring eye, you
use your stock shackle setup to your main leaves.  

With this setup, you could also drill the C-channel for a retaining pin
if you feel the need - right at the rear spring eye of the buggy.

With the buggy *always* riding in the c-channel, it won't get a chance
to deflect or wiggle much/any.  Don't forget to line the C-channel with
a teflon pad of some sort.. as a sort of "bump stop"

In the rear, you're right, Dan - springs are outboard and it's a pain to
figure out.

Todd McCullen recommended using a solid link setup similar to what Eric
Stude used.  Make your pivot point roughly right above the axle.  Cut
off the rear shackle mount "eye" part, and use the mount's flat point as
the resting spot for the solid arm.  Use a bump stop or poly "pad" for
it to rest against.  

I'm just not positive how to affix the solid rod at the "forward" (non
shackle) end.  Probably a bracket like the stock spring hanger on the
front of the rear springs.  Or maybe a large piece of C channel that
fits over the frame and extends say 2" farther.. and "sandwich" your
solid link bar between the C-channel and the frame and use a greased
bushing/bolt through the whole thing.

Another idea would be to put a C-channel outboard of the frame (build a
mount about the center of the wheel well, and use the stock rear shackle
mount) for a true buggy leaf to rest in.  

I like the buggy (3/4 eliptical) concept.  I like it better than the
solid link rod.  IMO, a buggy *leaf* actually applies some downward
pressure to the tire.. the solid link does little more than keep the
axle on the ground for Center-of-gravity issues and whatever traction
you get from gravity on the *tire* and axle combination.. but no truck
weight.

OK, let's hear your thoughts, Dan.

-Tom Mandera, Helena MT - Nuts
http://www.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout