Re: Full width axles

[Tom Mandera <tsm1@domain.elided>]

On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, Darrel wrote:

> > However, no calipers, no rotors, no hubs.  Recall that '74 had disc
> > brakes and, by all accounts, parts are $$$$.
> 
> Yes, they are spendy. I would look for a GM axle.

OK, I spotted loads of Chevy front ends.. but they're all 6-lug.  What 
parts would I need to convert the Chevy over to 5 on 5.5?  It's not as 
simple as putting Scout II (or Jeep) rotors and hubs on I bet..

I'd like to be able to use the 10 stock tires and rims I currently have.. 
and be able to trade off with my driver from time to time (like putting 
my 33x12.50 STTs for the mud bog.. or maybe my 33x12.50 STTs up front, 
and my 32x18" bar-tread tires in back (no, not paddles, but bars..))

> >Could I buy this axle, get a set of new Scout II rotors and calipers, Scout
> II front hubs, and put it all together?  Why/why not?

> Maybe, check the spline count of the stub shafts. The Scout stub shafts are
> tiny. Talking diameter here.

If the stub shaft is the problem, I could swap the stubs off my Dana 30.  
The Dana 30 and '44 Scout IIs used the same spline count and size.. I 
know, my Dana 44 sports a Warn lock-out stolen from my Dana 30.

Would this then let me use the cheaper Scout II or CJ rotors and hubs, 
and Scout II/Ford calipers then?

Why are those rotors for 74/75 so darn special?

> This steering setup is very common and was used by Dodge, GM, and IH on 1/2
> and 3/4 tons.

Yep.

Could the IH/GM/Dodge/whatever steering box be fitted to the Scout II and 
use the "stock" setup for these axles?  Looking, the Scout II pump is 
mounted over + inside (inside the area enclosed by) the frame, with the 
pitman drop on the inside of the frame, while on the pickups I was looking 
at, the box is on the outside of the frame, with the "drop" outside was well.

How well does this setup (drag link straight to driver's knuckle) work 
when you lift a rig?

>  I think you mean modify the passenger side *steering knuckle*?  Been there,

You're right, knuckle.

> done that.  This is how I converted to a straight drag-link with my
> springover. I used 1974 3/4 ton IH steering knuckles...They're flat on top.

That's the knuckle it has. :)  On the driver's side in particular I noted 
it having the "horseshoe" steering arm mounted via some bolts to the top 
of the knuckle.  I didn't look closely at the passenger side.

> between the knuckle and the steering arm. This spacer is sold at all the 4x4

Too bad we don't have "4x4 shops" around here.. closest thing is my 
garage. :-)

> I have a complete write-up on my home page, but don't have it on the web yet.
> :-(

Geeze, Darrel, a lot of good *that* does me! :-)

> This would be for your racer? If so just bolt that axle right in. The spring
> perches are only spaced about one inch wider then a Scout. The axle shock
> mounts will work with the Scout frame mounts. Pinion angle shouldn't be a
> concern since you don't want much lift on a racer.

Lift - I do and I don't want lift.  I want a lift of some sort up front.. 
or at least some heavy springs with a bit of travel to 'em.. to keep from 
bottoming out the suspension *every time* I jump and land.. OTOH, center 
of gravity is important too...

I was thinking a Scout II front w/ 4" lift springs.. stiff ones.. and a 
spring-over rear becuase the rear isn't as important and a spring-over 
would be cheap.  (plus, I get to practice doing a spring over on the rear 
of the racer before I tackle my daily driver).  With a full width axle, 
it's already spring over.. I have clearance for tires (I figured I'd 
Sawzall what clearance I need anyhow), but I don't *think* I gain much in 
*travel* and landing absorption.

I wonder if I'd be better off using stock Scout II springs w/ the full 
width axle.. or.. I was looking at the wider pickup & T'all springs, and 
thinking... it wouldn't be much to cut the front shackle mounts off the 
Scout, weld some box tube on and make a reverse shackle setup.. which 
would make it *easy* to adjust for the width of the wider T'all/Pickup 
springs, and then use the bushing-through-frame and rear shackle.. 

I don't know how much longer the *front* springs are.. but I recall the 
*rear* 3/4T Travelall springs are 4" longer than the front Scout II 
springs.. it was suggested I use the T'all springs for the front 
spring-over & reverse shackle on the frame-off.. just move the spring 
mount point forward a little bit, and/or move the center pin.

Anyone care to suggest a good spring choice?  "ride comfort" is *not* so 
important.. the Scout needs to be able to follow the terrain and keep the 
tires on the turf when I'm on the ground and running.. but it also needs 
to have enough room between the axle and the bump stops, and a high 
enough spring rate, to handle the nose-first landings when you jump a 
Scout II with a 750lbs motor dangling off the front..  I'll definitely 
splurge the $50 each for the heavy duty Nissan-style bump stops for the 
front.. I've already watched the front bump stops get blown apart while 
racing my friend's Scout II.

> > Ideally, I want 4.88:1 gears.. but if I can find a 3.73 front end to
> 
> I just happen to have a good Dana 44 ring and pinion in 4.88.  How does $50
> sound?

Sounds like... "SOLD" to me.. :-)  I'd probably still want the $30 
bearing and install kit though, right?  Then another $130 for the other 
pumpkin.. plus another $30 in the install kit.. I'll have to talk to my 
R&P friend.. :-)

> How wide is that T'all rear end?  My '74 IH 3/4 ton axles are 67.5 inches.

Someone said 4" wider than a Scout II.  I roughly confirmed this.

I measured from the side of the pumpkin to the side of the spring perch 
on my Scout II rear end and the T'all.. 1" more on either side on the 
T'all.  I think it was.. maybe it was 2" more on either side from the 
outside edge of the spring perch to the wheel hub/drum.

My opinion at the time I measured (last week) was that.. I'd probably 
just bolt the Scout II rear springs to the perches as-is, and let the 
springs kinda "arch" outwards a little bit.. might even *help* around 
corners.. who knows!  Then I don't have to question the quality of my 
welds on the axle tube when I would put the spring perches back on in the 
appropriate location..

Thanks, Darrel.

-Tom